What Brazil Taught Me About Leadership with Paula Macaggi

Many retail leaders operate with a limited perspective, often assuming that their market’s approach is the gold standard. But in a world where consumer behaviors, technology, and retail strategies vary dramatically by region, leaders who fail to think globally risk falling behind. 

The challenge isn’t just understanding different markets—it’s learning how to apply global insights in a way that drives innovation and growth.

In this episode, Steve sits down with PAULA MACAGGI, host of Off Bounds and a global retail expert, to explore how retail leadership shifts across different cultures and economies. Paula shares her journey from Brazil to New York and beyond, offering a fresh perspective on how retail operates on a global scale. 

From her insights on consumer engagement in Brazil to the technological advancements shaping China’s retail landscape, this conversation is a deep dive into what leaders can learn when they break out of their local mindset.

Offbounds Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@off-bounds

Transcript

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SPEAKER_02 0:50

So I absolutely love podcasts. And when I first heard this podcast, Off Bounds, by today's guest, Paula Mikaji, I had to have her on the show. One of the things that I love about the podcast, and also the perspective that she brings, is a massive international perspective, a global perspective on retail. So today's episode, we're going to be talking about retail from a global standpoint, retail leadership from a global standpoint. But more importantly, more importantly, we're going to learn a lot more about Paula and her upbringing in Brazil and how that has impacted who she is, the person that she is, and the leader that she is today. So thank you for being here with Retail Leadership with Steve Worthy. Let's go ahead and get started.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

Welcome to Retail Leadership with Steve Worthy, where we go well beyond the corporate playbook to unpack major opportunities, hidden challenges, and critical issues that senior retail leaders face every day. So let's get started right now.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Okay, um, so Paula, I gotta tell you, I I've been I've been extremely excited about uh speaking with you. And I know, you know, most times, you know, when people start to talk to you, they they want to go right to the retail stuff. Listen to me, we are gonna cover that, and we're gonna cover your amazing podcast, which is something I listen to on the regular. Um it has changed my perspective on a lot of different areas. But I want to start, I want to start with you and your home country of Brazil. You did a post a while back, and I think you were it was at the the VTech day, and it was at the end, it was at the end of the um of the event, and the energy was when from that video that you that you shared, and what you said, and this is what you said, you said um Brazil is just different. It's just different. The energy in Brazil is is is just different. Can you talk a little bit about sort of your your upbringing, all the different things you can take as long as you want to talk about you and everything that you've experienced in Brazil, and um because I wanted to start there because I believe it's gonna tell people and explain a lot about you know where you are right now in your journey.

SPEAKER_03 3:13

Absolutely. So there are two Brazils for me. One when I was living there and one after I left. So when when I was there, like that was the normal things for me, right? Like so I I wasn't paying attention how big our trees are or how fun it is to be around us, or you know, and then after I left, I realized like, oh, this is Brazil. Uh I think like this shift of perspective when you leave a country is when we actually realize what the country is about. So yeah, I grew up in Brazil, my family in a very good family. We we were not rich, but my parents could afford good education. Uh I did start learning English at some point in my education. But uh I studied economics, I went to college. So going to college was always something that I knew I was gonna do. Like it wasn't it wasn't something like, oh, maybe, you know, which is very common to the rest of the country. So I wanna be, I was very privileged in my upbringing, let's say. Uh so I studied economics because I wanted to go to banking. I was like, no, I was made for finance. Look at me. I want to make a lot of money. Yeah, I don't mind working 80 hours a week and etc. Turns out that I hated it. I did work for six years. I was, yeah, that was just not natural, you know. I was forcing something, I was trying to understand, and like I was just not a good fit. But I knew that I don't know, I studied so hard for it, right? So I needed to grow in my career, maybe in another bank, maybe if I go to JP Morgan, maybe if I go to another, you know, something like that, I'll I'll be better. I'll like it more, but I couldn't speak English fluently, which made me like, you know what, why don't I go to New York? Which is what I did.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

Good, good, excellent, excellent. I hope my city welcomes you with open arms.

SPEAKER_03 5:22

It wasn't so open. Uh my first I remember when I arrived, I was like, well, you know, I can barely I thought I knew how to speak English, but I was definitely not communicating well, you know, like when you know the how are you? I am fine, and you, and then there's nothing all good, all good, all good. That you're like, I don't know. This is a question, this is an answer. And I remember my first meal in New York when I arrived to live there. I had visited before uh as a tourist, but it's living is different.

SPEAKER_02 5:57

Right.

SPEAKER_03 5:58

And I was living in Bayridge to start with.

SPEAKER_02 6:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:01

So South Brooklyn. Um, and I remember I was like, well, I'm hungry. There's a McDonald's in the corner. I'm just gonna go there because McDonald's is universal, right? I can say number two, please. And they will get it. So I was like, number two, please. And she said to say to go. And I was like, excuse me, to say to go. And I was like, I don't know, I got my wallet, like how much? She's like, to stay or to go, miss. And I was like, Oh. So that was my first meeting New York, and I fell in love, obviously, and I stayed for five years, exactly. I spent two years, three years actually, uh, no, two years studying English in New York. So it was very hard for me to I don't know, to be able to communicate. I communicate a lot. That's I work in communications, right? Like I it was very hard to not make myself understandable, my ideas, everything that I had in my mind. I was so smart and I couldn't express it, you know?

SPEAKER_01 7:08

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 7:09

So it was two years going to school full-time to learn how to speak English. Then I studied marketing, and then I had the opportunity to work, so that was interesting.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

You're listening to retail leadership with Steve Worthy.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

So it's it's so funny. There's a there's a parallel to to uh in in my life. So I went to undergrad for accounting. And back, I'm a little old, and uh back then it was.

SPEAKER_03 7:38

I'm so sorry for you. I don't know who who takes who makes this decision.

SPEAKER_02 7:42

I did. I did because you know what? Because uh it was back then it was the big six, you know, in in accounting. And so this is this is the mid-90s, so dating myself. But, you know, you can actually make pretty decent money if you went back to to New York City and um, you know, and got into accounting. I hated it. I I I lasted six months in the accounting field. So I f I I understand your your pain when you talk about, you know, you're going into finance and you're like, okay, this is it, this isn't it for me. And then I stumbled upon in uh into retail. So you have gone from you went from from banking um into the retail space. Could you talk a little bit about you know that transition in your life?

SPEAKER_03 8:27

That transition took a while. It wasn't so straight up, right? Like I wish I I wish I had a good story to tell. Yeah, like and then I got a job on the sales floor and I was there in retail, but my views expired in New York. I left. I so I left and decided to travel the road. I was like, you know what, I can do remote work. Now I speak English. Uh so I was decided to travel the world. So I was spending like two weeks in a country, three weeks in the other one, one month in the other one. I did like 18 countries like that. Um until COVID. That was easy for me. So like I was working a lot of it with events, I was doing the tour of many DJs. I've never thought about going to retail um until 2020. So 2020 was a year that all the events were over. I wasn't doing any tours anymore, no festivals. What was I gonna do with my life? I have no idea. Uh so I looked for a job and I found it with Rethink Retail, their media company that covers retail. And I found it super cool. I was like, oh, maybe I was made for this. That finally like I found a job that I would be, that I was like happy to be awake to do it. You know, like I was seeing my impact, I was meeting people that were were worth having in my life, and et cetera. So I fell in love with the industry like that. Out out of luck, I would say.

SPEAKER_02 10:01

Yeah. Well, it's interesting. And I'm so glad we we we were talking about this because um right before we came on, um, you know, we talked about you said, Steve, I'm not I'm not a retail leader. This is not that's not my role, and that's not my perspective, and I appreciated that. And I think that's exactly why I wanted to have this conversation with you is because as a ex-retail person, you know, now in, you know, uh now in a different space, but still in the retail space, um, you bring you bring a completely different perspective on on retail. So when you when you know working with rethink, rethink, um, rethink retail, could you talk a little bit about what are some of the things that you learned or that were surprising to you when you actually moved into this retail space? Because, you know, you go from being a shopper, right? You're you're you know, because I because I you're you're stylish. I already know. I I I see you. I I see you at Shop Talk, so you're stylish, so I know you like to shop. You're probably shopping before you got to rethink. Um could you talk a little bit about that transition from being a shopper to actually moving into that retail, you know, um industry space?

SPEAKER_03 11:08

I think all of us that worked in the industry have good have done this transition, right? We were just shoppers and suddenly we're discussing how shoppers should feel and how we can better serve them. Um I I think I had no idea how much technology was involved in selling something in a store, you know, or selling something online, or how integrated things had to be. For me, it was just there. Like, oh, I knew what a good experience was, I knew what a bad experience was, I had no idea why. And getting the industry and speaking with so many technologies and so many leaders and trying to understand their struggles and what they're doing to improve uh customer experience and et cetera, opened my mind to, oh wow, the retail ecosystem is a lot bigger than I imagine. And that kept me pushing. Like, I want to know more. Like, uh, and I think like that's where my curiosity got in play because I was very curious. And so I started by asking more questions, and that's why I have a podcast by if you're not talking about it, but like I'm curious, I want to know more about what how things work and why, and what are the best the best ways to improve? I don't know. Like that's I think that was the most surprising thing. Also, like how nice people are in retail. I think our industry is the nicest. I mean, for someone that came from finance, you know, you you were in accountant. You're you were in accounting. For someone that came from finance, it's just like nice people. I think most of them came from the sales floor. They they they were there serving people, you know, like being there for the people, and I think that transcends the whole industry.

SPEAKER_02 12:59

So that's no, I agree with that. I I I completely agree with that. I and I know I'm biased, but I love our industry. I love it. Uh one of the areas that you know I know I definitely wanted to get your perspective on is because, of course, I'm here in America. And, you know, America, we feel like we we invented retail and that we're the best at it, and that no one can compare it to how we do things, right? And this is from a completely American-centric, you know, uh perspective. But you have a global, you have a very global perspective, right? Um, you know what? I I just I just want to be your like your assistant because every time I see you, you're traveling. So after this interview, I'm gonna submit my resume so that um I could just like you know, you know, hang out with you.

SPEAKER_03 13:46

Um We would love to have you, please. You're hired.

SPEAKER_02 13:49

Excellent. Here we go. End of the interview. End of the interview. Um when you when you travel around, and of course you spent a lot of time here in the States, but when you travel around and you think about you know, sort of this global perspective of retail, um, what are some of the things that um that sticks out compared to America, compared to sort of the rest of the world, right? Because my audience is it's probably 80, 80, 20, 80 percent American, 20%, you know, uh international. So but I think they need to learn and understand that.

SPEAKER_03 14:21

That's that's a very interesting question because it varies a lot, right? So I don't know. I think compared to Brazil, where I can where I come from, I think we are very like China, we are very content-oriented. Uh so we're very focused on the the Instagram story of the brand, how the brand is engaged on social channels. Every brand, everyone has a podcast. So it's uh 100%. And it's the second one for live commerce after China. So you see, like we are a lot of uh we engage a lot with brands. Like if I had a podcast that was in Portuguese, I'm sure it would have like three times my audience because people like to comment, to to share, to like, to and this is the same with brands. So this is something that I found very different compared to the US. Um another thing that I think in the US was not not anymore, I think it changed, but like my first shock was going to a CVS, which is a pharmacy for your health, and they were selling cigarettes. I was like, what? And also, I don't know, the way Americans shop compared to where I came from, and that was also a big shock, was like going to Walmart and seeing people buying five liters of uh like a gallon of orange juice. I was like, who drinks a gallon of orange juice? It's like buying big, big portions, I think because you have bigger houses, you have how we storage it, so you can uh you can see some of these small differences. So in Europe, for example, where they've been to for the for the last five years, is everybody goes shop every like goes to do the grocery every three days. Everything is organic, so you have to eat every three days to to have something fresh in your fridge. So like that's something that that you notice. And I think also Europe has a good way to tell stories in your stores, which I don't see much in the US.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

Give me an example of that because I that's because you you actually alluded to that earlier. You talked about content and you talked about engaging with when engaging with the brand. So that actually alludes to what you just talked about, um tell telling the story. Do you have any examples that you can that you can share?

SPEAKER_03 16:50

I think like if you think about all the luxury brands, they have a specific story that they tell, right? So like we're talking about LVMH or Valentina or whatever, they tell the the heritage story or something you belong to something royal. But that's very specific because it's luxury. Uh but you have, and that's an example I use every time. Like people that listen to me in other interviews, they might be like, oh, here we go. She's gonna be talking about this brand again. Uh is there's this cosmetic brand called Rituals. It's like um, it's like the body shop. They have like um cream, soap, um, things like that for your body for your house, candles, you know. But they have this store in Amsterdam, it's a Dutch brand called House of Rituals, which has it's a four-story store. Where okay, it's a store, a super nice store where you engage with everything. They have iPads, it's easy to process, you have like it's super engaging in terms of experience. But uh, the third and fourth floor is just services. Like you actually go to a spa. You have spa for the body in one floor and spa for the mind in the other floor. But it's I am a huge spa fan and I've never seen the things they have that in another spa. So like it's very unique. Yeah, you know. And every time that I go there, they have a different offer. It was like, oh, I need to try this hydro massage, I need to try this, you know. So this is a way, for example, that I can engage with a brand that I can't, that haven't had anything similar in the US, for example. But it's really like, oh, I want to go and hang out at that store for a while. I literally spent all the time that I go to Amsterdam, I spend five, six hours in this store.

SPEAKER_02 18:40

So that's a great example. Actually, in our in our mutual friend, um uh Ian Scott, actually, uh I if I'm I think I want to say it was early this year or sometime last year, he visited that store. Um, and also Jack, Jack, um Jack Stratton, um, our our good friend too, he uh he visits, they both visited that store. I don't think they did at the same time, but they just raved about rituals. Like every time they go to Amsterdam, I think they always post about that store. They're like, I gotta go, I gotta go in there. I gotta go in there. I'm like, okay, next time, Jack, get a get a facial treatment, you know, or something. I'm gonna make sure he gets one of those.

SPEAKER_03 19:15

No, I got a brain massage. Really recommend it.

SPEAKER_02 19:19

Oh, oh, see?

SPEAKER_03 19:20

See things that you see in other in other places. Where else can you get a brain massage? You can go to the rituals store and do it. Isn't it amazing?

SPEAKER_02 19:28

It is amazing. I actually need that. I I need that right now. Um let's let's let's talk about um, you know, you mentioned uh curiosity. You mentioned curiosity, and I I love that word. I love that word. And that it's that curiosity that drove you to to start what I feel, and um I don't have any production or executive producer credits on your on your on your podcast, but it is it is one of my favorite podcasts to listen to. Um you've interviewed, once again, um uh, you know, whatever good friend's uh Steve Dennis, but like your podcast with Yuri Levine, um, you know, uh founder of Waze. Uh that one I I immediately after that after that podcast, I went and bought his book and um and read it. And I don't know how many people I've shared it with, you know, from in the entrepreneurial space. So your podcast has uh has definitely influenced me and and other people. Could you talk a little bit about how how that um the you know the creation of that podcast has started, and we'll talk a little bit more about some of the interviews.

SPEAKER_03 20:36

Absolutely. So I worked with Rethink Retail, which is an American media company, uh, and I was responsible to make the the brand more global through partnerships and uh content and et cetera. Um I felt there was a bit of resistance. Um that's not on them, it's like a bit of resistance from I don't know, like there's so much to talk about the US. Why would you we talk about small branding somewhere else, you know? So I felt the lack of one place to discuss all things, like global perspectives. I did I think like you have amazing shows about UK, amazing shows about a specific country, amazing shows about many places, but like nothing global. And our episode tomorrow, for example, is gonna be our sixth our guest from the sixth continent. So we covered the whole globe in one year.

SPEAKER_02 21:42

That's awesome. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 21:44

Yeah, I have my camera, it has AI, so it keeps Oh, that's good.

SPEAKER_02 21:47

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 21:48

Yeah. Uh sorry, it's gonna be moving.

SPEAKER_02 21:51

That's all right. We'll we'll fix that in post.

SPEAKER_03 21:55

Yeah, so I wanted to create something global. I'm very good. You have to at some point in your life you have to realize what you're good at, what you're naturally good at, what's your talent? And my talent is I can I can cros I can live cross-culturally super easy. I navigate, I navigate through cultures easily. For me, it's not a big deal to talk to someone in France or someone in China to someone, you know, like I I assimilate these cultures easily. And another talent that I have is that I'm very good in networking. Uh and that's something I had no idea it was until I realized that many people can do it. I was like, Well, why not? Just go and ask, go and talk. And they're like, No, what I was like, well, it just came to me. I'm I'm like that. So I decided to create off bounds. I was like, I can leverage my network. I truly believe that something that we are discussing in the US can be learned from someone that did something similar in Sweden or an innovation that is happening in Australia that is driving something different in Spain. You know, like I think we can learn from other people, from other perspectives, from other case studies that haven't been discussed in our day-to-day. So that's why I created off bounds.

SPEAKER_02 23:15

Yeah. And it's interesting because I I think when I hear you talk about the story, um, you're talking, we were talking about like compared to the states, and I when you talk about the story and engaging in the content, I hear that in your in your podcast. I don't know if you know this or not. I I hear you you you bringing out the story um of the brand. I hear you bringing out the ideas that a lot of people don't don't necessarily ask or potentially think about, which is one of the reasons why I I enjoyed because I love the story, but I love your the the questions and your ability to bring out, you know, um I'm gonna go back to the to you to the Yuri Levine one because I don't know how many times I watched it. It's probably the one I would probably watch the least, maybe 10 times, and was taking notes the entire time.

SPEAKER_03 24:04

Thank you so much. Yeah, that was a great one. And I left with a lot of like, wow, that impacted me too. Especially as an entrepreneur. Like I was like, oh wow. Yeah. What is my product market fit? And now I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

Oh, I mean, we need I, you know, those some a lot of those, uh a lot of the things that he was saying speaking about. So anybody who who's who's listening to this, um, I'm definitely able to leave a link in the in the description for that, not just for for your podcast, but specifically for that one. So um your curiosity, when you when you think about asking, you know, different questions, is there is there a different is there a strategy? Because I think curiosity sometimes, you know, I think people overthink, right? And I think they're like, they write everything down and they do this and that. When you think about sitting down with some of these really, you know, um change makers within our industry or within the world, they're not just in retail space, but they're in the world, right? What is sort of your thought process? Because I think leaders who are listening to this can actually learn a lot from your level of curiosity when you interview people.

SPEAKER_03 26:33

Well, first I have to research a lot about the guests. Um, so I have to I have to read every LinkedIn post. I have Leah from my team who does a very good job. She put everything in a PowerPoint for me to see all TikToks talking about the brand, all the content. She's very good. She's also very curious. That's why she's a good fit for off bounce. And uh she brings everything to me, and then I read news, you know, everything. So my curiosity starts when I'm researching. Like, what do they mean that they're going to see? Why the like, you know, like that's when um I start thinking of my questions. I send I send the guests some questions in advance, but when we're talking, like we're doing here, there's also some follow-up questions that arise. And yeah, but first is really at least 48 hours of research into the guests and the company.

SPEAKER_02 27:33

Yeah, excellent, excellent. What what interview, okay? I we've I've talked about the the Yuri Living one, but I'm gonna I'm gonna have you pick, because that was being selfish of me, because that's one of my favorites. Um, and I know they're all you know, give the answer. They're all my children, I love them all equally. But um, what episode sort of sticks out to you, or maybe a lesson's learned from from one of the episodes that you were like, oh my gosh, that that lesson from from that episode sort of changed me and I'm in my perspective on something.

SPEAKER_03 28:03

I have so many.

SPEAKER_02 28:05

I know.

SPEAKER_03 28:07

Maybe all of them have something that I was like, picking as you want.

SPEAKER_02 28:10

Pick as many as you want. Go for it. Uh we got it.

SPEAKER_03 28:12

Yeah, well, there's one episode that that I left really impacted was the one with the from the Sardine store. I don't know if you've watched this one.

SPEAKER_02 28:21

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03 28:22

But it's super interesting to see a verticalized business. And I was like, why verticalized? Like, what does it make any sense? He was like, we do because we own the story. Yes. And I was like, wow. You know?

SPEAKER_02 28:35

Yeah, yeah. I sat back. I sat when he said I sat back when he when they when they when they said that as well. So I'm sorry, go ahead, don't go go finish.

SPEAKER_03 28:43

Oh, yeah. This one is this one is incredible in the way like I was passing, I was with a friend that was visiting Lisbon last week, and I took her to another city, a small city. There was a guy playing violin in the store. You know, like you have this free concert, and you feel so grateful that you buy a can of sergine, you know, things like that. Uh it's it's really it's really good. They do they do it very well. There's like for me, it's a masterclass of branding. Um I have I think all episodes about China, because China is always a good discovery. I just went there, like, right? Like I was there three weeks ago. And it was ridiculous how impressed I was. I was like, you know, like my God, oh my god, this is this is this is how they do it. Uh so all the episodes about China, especially I think the last one, because I was there. Uh, we talked about luxury in China, and everybody's talking about the slowdown, fatigue, nobody wants luxury anymore, and etc. And being there really showed me that this is not the case. Um, so things like that. Also, the episode that is going live tomorrow, and we are talking about November 26th, so it's about a Takadum. It's about a cash and carry model. I I do this because it's kind of different and Costco. Um but it's like a cash and carry model where you can buy wholesale or retail. Uh the consumer or the the small businesses can go to this big store, this is a warehouse, and it it exists in Brazil for 60 years. It was the concept was imported to Morocco 10, 15 years ago, and it was so successful that just they just opened this year one in France. So it's a completely different model that is emerging in Europe. And this is something that is challenging everything. So this is something that changes challenges my perspectives too. And the perspectives of consumers and the perspectives of the industry. Should everybody be worried about this model because it is really cheaper than anything else that exists in France for the consumers. So see, it's just so every day I learn something new.

SPEAKER_02 31:02

Oh, I can't wait. I I I I I I can't wait. I'm um I'm I'm actually excited about that, uh, about that episode. This question, okay, I got one or two more questions. And this question right here is gonna be very selfish of me because I want to know this because um, you know, we do I do a lot of coaching and training, whether it's people in the States or people abroad. If you if you were to design, I think I gave you this question, if you were to design sort of this executive um you know, uh leadership program for for for retail leaders, um, because part of it is very, once again, we're we have this American, Americanized ideas around retail. Um I I I I wanted to pick your brain about something, how do you create something that's gonna be more uh global from an executive retail leader standpoint? What are some of the things that you would think about making sure that you want to include in that process?

SPEAKER_03 31:57

It's hard to say because that could be I would say travel as much as you can, but that's I think that it really opens your mind. And you I really think you cannot be global if your leadership isn't global.

SPEAKER_01 32:13

You're listening to retail leadership with Steve Worthy.

SPEAKER_03 32:19

If your leadership thinks narrowly that that is gonna transmit to the rest of the team, I think you have to expand. Everybody has to expand their mindset. Um and I think I don't know, I would suggest everyone to travel, but that's like how how much can you do that, right? But like go to retail shows, like why are we going just to NRF? Go to Euroshop, see how people are doing there, go to Shop Talk Europe, go to Shop Talk Fall, I don't know, like expand, try to meet people from other places, how they do, ask questions, uh and then how you trans. I think once the leadership is there, thinking and listen to off bounds.

SPEAKER_02 33:00

Uh definitely, definitely.

SPEAKER_03 33:04

Yeah, but like when the leadership is there, aligned with all everything that is happening around the world, that they're informed, that's gonna like go through the whole company. I think it should be part of the culture of the company to expand, to travel, but to really expand the mindset of everybody to become more curious globally. Does it make sense?

SPEAKER_02 33:27

No, I no, I I I agree. And I think that's and I always think that's you know, it's so it's it's it's interesting and it's hard, but also kind of like upsetting because when I when I see a lot of companies, and you see this, where some some companies fail, um, whether it's it's their expansion ideas when they go to when they go abroad, and they don't take in the that curiosity. I I'll give you I'll give you a great example. Here's a great example. So when I was in grad school, um uh one of our capstone classes was around actually expanding an American company into Mexico. And so I had to come, I had, of course, the American perspective of like, hey, why don't we just buy a company that does something very similar and we'll we'll move we'll move our capabilities over there, and bada bing, bada boom, we're done. Thank God I actually had an international sort of class, and they were like, no, I don't necessarily think that that's you know the right way of doing it, Steve. And what it did for me, and this is why I asked that question, is this very similar to your answers that is that that uh world perspective, a world view, opened up my eyes to like, there's more than one way for us to do this. There's more than one way for us to do this. So go, I'm sorry, go ahead. You're gonna say something.

SPEAKER_03 34:39

And I and like I know our businesses, when they they want to uh expand to Country X, are they putting the the right people there or they're just sending someone from their headquarters there? Like they have to have their leadership, you must understand that culture more than anything. The leadership that is gonna be in that country. That's why so many brands have Levi's have a CEO for China, Starbucks has a CEO for China, you know? Like you have to have that expertise too, and you have to listen to them. Yeah. So yeah. If we're not like, oh, this is how we do here in the US, like, well, this is not how it works here in China, you know?

SPEAKER_02 35:18

No, not at all. Not at all.

SPEAKER_03 35:20

Yeah, especially China, there's a whole different ecosystem.

SPEAKER_02 35:23

So oh my gosh. Well, I wanna I wanna I want to end this this episode sort of where we started. I want to go back to Brazil. And I want I want you to share um with with the leaders out there, you know, um probably one of your biggest lessons, you know, that you've learned growing up there that has helped transition you into into who you are today. Because I I gotta tell you, if if this is your first time, um my audience listening or here and hearing from Paula, um I you gotta you gotta go to her her LinkedIn. I'm gonna make sure I have all of that information there too, but her podcast, but your your post, and anytime you post about Brazil, like I think we talked about this earlier. I've never been there before, but anytime you post about it, I always feel like I'm I'm there. So um it it I don't know if you know this or not, but it it comes out. So could you share just a little bit some of some of your thoughts and about who you are, you know, to the to the team, and excuse me, to the to the audience as well.

SPEAKER_03 36:23

Yeah, so Brazil, I think what's so specific about Brazil is that we're super cool. Like you go there, yeah, like you go there, people are not complaining, everybody has a smile on their face, everybody's welcoming you, and that goes to the story associate, to everyone like it. They call you my love. Come here, my love, take this. Do you need anything? Like, it's so sentimental. Everything is so emotional. You know, we we have fun with emotion. If you if you ask any singer, any band, where is the best crowd they ever had is in Brazil. Like we express emotions a lot, and that goes into everything for the good and for the bad. But yeah, I think I think I express emotions. I think that's something I learned in my culture that that people welcomes me everywhere because you know, I'm here, I'm genuine, I'm like smiling, not because of anything. Once I was in Romania and this guy stopped me saying something in Romanian. I was like, excuse me, I don't speak English. He was like, I knew it. You couldn't be a Romanian smiling. They didn't understand why I wasn't smiling. I just smile because that's where I came from. This is how we do. And I think I think that was I think there are so many Brazilians, like the president of Pandora that have been to my podcast, he's Brazilian, the VP of e-commerce of PepsiCo in Europe, he's Brazilian. I think we all take this emotion into business. And I think that I think that's a different differentiator somehow.

SPEAKER_02 38:09

That's oh that's a whole nother podcast episode about taking your emotions into the business. I I I want to thank you so much for being here for being on our retail leadership with Seaworthy. Like this is this is you you have made my year. Um, you know, I've I've followed you for for for this sounds creepy, but I followed you on your virtual. Virtually. Virtually. Virtually. Everybody get that, please. Virtually. Let's just make sure we clean this up, right? But no, I've I I I I love what you post, I love what you're about. I love what you share, and I I know my audience is gonna get so much out of this conversation. So thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_03 38:57

Thank you so much for inviting me. It was a pleasure.

SPEAKER_02 38:59

Excellent, excellent.